index
education
husband
make a mistake. Show me the person that never makes a mistake. Well, I'd had enough
her at that time. But that's not where I ended.
I went down to the, the main office, and I saw the vice principle in charge of
elementary schools. And I walked into his office told him who I was and that I had, felt
that I had a purposeful visit to make to the head of elementary education. And I told him
about it being war-time. I told him how she had, well she had humiliated me, but I didn't
tell him that. But, how unnecessary it was for her to remove that eraser from that pencil in
that room when those children were all there to see what she was doing, and to say that
they weren't supposed to make a mistake. He never, when I finished talking, he looked at
me, and he said, "Mrs. Covey, the te, teachers are not supposed to be judging the
principles." And I turned and walked out. But believe me, I, I saw tliat that got around
plenty because I wasn't gonna have her affecting all, imagine 800 or 1000 students. And
that, to me that was crime. So, I'll go to bat for anybody that I think needs a little support
on anything like that because I don't think its, I don't think that's right at all.
T saw Miss May, no, no, May Long, no Long was P.E. teacher at Bellingham, well,
anyway, I don't, I know her first name was may, but after that, if I ever mentioned her
name, everyone said, "Oh, she's one of the 7 devils, didn't you know that?" There were 7
of 'em. But they don't have those kind anymore. Teachers can, can say what they'd like
to, and they should. After all, that's a corporation; you should cooperate, and you should
be working together for the harmony of the, and, and the education of the children. And
you're not going to do anything to a child when you keep dragging him out of a line. If
you don't teach him, well, it's... next.
430 L. L. : Remember last time, you said that you thought her problem was just that went to "normal
school?"
M. C. : Well, you see, this is at a time now, when, if you didn't upgrade yourself doing something,
you were left behind doing nothing, or doing what she did. And anytime you see
somebody putting force behind you, and forcing you to do things, that's not education. To
me, I'd hate to tell you what it is. But, that's, and, and, uh, I came to the conclusion that
she couldn't have had much of an education, you see, from back at the old school because,
when I first started school, you, if you passed the state examination, then you could teach.
Now passing an examination doesn't give you a good teacher. Since then, I learned from
my own son; he said, "Now big business would rather not have an A student, they'd rather
have a B student that they could train their way. See what that meant? And I think she
just, that was her way of forcing an issue when she didn't hiow how else to handle it. And
that's weakness, that's not strength.
459 L. L. ; What about, um, meeting your husband? Could you tell me about that?
M. C. : Well, he was someone I knew in high school. But he was a senior when I was a freshman,
so I didn't have much to do with that situation. But then when we went to the university,
oh I went out with him maybe 2 or 3 times, but not on a, I was already going with this
other boy. And, uh, but, later then, we took up again, and that's when we became... Now
that's a, that's another situation for young people. Uh, he was land and thoughtful and
loving and, uh, and, uh very considerate.
end Tape 3. side B
Tape 4
sjdeA
children006
M. C. : Well, there isn't much else to say.
L. L. : About your...
M. C. : Oh well, my son is always taking an integrate part in helping me with my daughter, not
financially, I've been able to do it myself, and I prefer it that way. But, uh, he has done
40
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Down's S014
everything he could to help me. He always has, even as a little fellow. And I can say this,
that, uh, we have never had a moment of anxiety because of him. He's always been. if he
said he's gonna be home by 4 o'clock I'd hear his footsteps on the back porch coming. If
he went down to the playground at Seward Park, he would always... return the time he said
he would.
L. L. : What about your daughter, what was it like when you found out that she had Down's
Syndrome?
conflict
handicap
M. C. : It was, it was a calamity, uh, Such a, a, thing never occurred to me. And the first thing I
said to friends was, "If it has to be, then why not me." I wasn't better than anyone else.
When the good Lord knew I'd do everything I could to help her. And not only help her,
because my thoughts have been with all the others that are like her or anyone that's
handicapped.
021 My heart goes out to them because I know the dismal, unkind things that people can
say and do, and it isn't the, uh, ignorant that do, it's the learned ones that often do. We
had a family that lived across the street from us: he was a doctor, an M.D., and she was a,
an R.N. And they had 5 children, and they were all teen-agers at this time, and, and they
were neighbors that were very unkind. In other words, as teen-agers, if she was out on the
porch or out on the lawn with her doll-buggy and doll, they'd come over and, and kick her
doll-buggy like out in the street and things of that nature. One day I attempted to go over
and talk to the ge, man, I won't call him a gentleman, the doctor, and he wouldn't come to
the door, but I knew he was in there. So, I went back a second time, and I, I told him that
I just came to speak to him about the rudeness of his children. And, they were all old
enough, you see, they all knew better; they were in high school and junior-high-school.
But they were just those kind of children. Well, that's enough of that.
043 L. L. : How did, uh, when your daughter was, when you first found out that she had Down
Syndrome, how did your husband react to that?
M. C, : He wasn't with me at the time. I had gone down, and I though it was queer that our own,
uh, doctor didn't tell me at the time. Uh, he had an assistant, and I had gone to see this
assistant on an appointment. And, uh, uh, this assistant. Dr. Thomas, uh, said, "Well,
didn't Dr. So-And-So tell you that your child is me, will be mentally retarded. Probably,
uh, borderline, but it didn't make any difference when they say the word "retarded," that
something was wrong. And it never dawned on me that anything was wrong before that.
L. L. : How old was she at the time?
M. C. : Oh, she was just a baby. She was just maybe, tw, two weeks old or three weeks old.
That's all. But it is a very devastating thing, but I've always been equal to challenges. And
no matter how bad things are, and I had a mother that had so much faith in everything that
if God gave you a child that was handicapped, He expected you to the best you could to
take care of her, and I have.
L. L. : What did your husband say when you informed him?
M. C. : Well, when I went home and informed him, he didn't say anything. He just dropped down
in a chair and became quiet and you know, that, uh, it was an awful blow, but that's the
way life is. But you know that God has given me so much strength and so much will
power, so much determination, if you want to call it that, to do the very best I can with
anyone, including my daughter. And I immediately started out when she was about a year
old to join the other mothers and fathers; that was the, called the... oh, well, it later became
ARC-The Association of Retarded Citizens. And I went back to Boston to visit some of
the, a very large, uh, state home to see how they operated things back there; because, at
this time, we had nothing in the state of Washington. And I think I told you, that the
national president, national president ofNAR, ofNARC, National Association, is living
her now, and his daughter is in a group home in, uh Everett, I think. And his son is in
41
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California. His son is very bright like mine was. And, uh, uh, these, these are for a good
reason. God knows best when it comes to doing and planning, and expecting us to, uh, to
do the best we can with what he gives us, that's for sure.
L. L. : When did your husband start drinking?
M. C. : Oh, dear, don't ask me. That is a terrible problem, a terrible problem.
L. L. : Was your daughter just a child then?
M. C. : Oh, I wasn't retired, no.
L. L. : No, was your daughter a child, was she little at the time?
M. C. : Did she do what?
L. L. : Was your daughter very little, sh, was she, was she young?
M. C. : Oh, yes, she was young. She was young. He never was able to face it. But, you see, one
reason why he wasn't able to face it, his family didn't. Now, he died some time ago,and
he hadn't seen her for over 30 years, or more. But, I knew, the Bible tells you, that, "Let
ven... Let vengeance unto me." "Let vengeance unto me, and that's right. You don't have
to do a thing; God takes care of them, and I, do, I felt sorry for him, very sorry, because he
was never able to face it, and uh, toward the end, he, he, he called me several times to tell
me what a wonderful mother I was, but then, that's, you hiow par for the course again.
L. L. : Did he see her before he died?
M. C. : No, he didn't.
L L. : How does your daughter deal with that?
daughter 102 M. C. : Well, she had told everybody that he had died years before he had because he hadn't come
to see her and she came to that conclusion 'cause she's pretty smart. Uh, not academically,
but she can get along very well. I think, uh, well I had uh, I had some pictures here of her I
thought that I'd showed you. Yeah, there, there's the picture taken not long ago.
L L. :..: Is she happy in her home?
M. C. ;..: Well, she'd like to stay there, but her health was so poor, you know I told you that she
had, uh, sclerosis of the liver.
L L. :. : Oh, you didn't tell me that.
education 115 M. C. : Well, she had that because, uh, she was at Rainier School for a very, very short time. And,
uh, uh, she was very capable and they put her to work taking care of sick children because
they, had, had, uh, uh, oh, they had hospital care for, uh, when they were having, uh, a run
of, uh, uh, I was going to say diabetes. What do you get with..., uh, there again a word
fails me. It isn't very often words fail me.
L. L. : Would it be hepatitis?
hepititis 122 M. C. : Hepatitis. And they put her to take care of the si, uli, patients, and of course she didn't
have that kind of training. And she got it herself, and it left her very, very incapacitated.
L. L. : How long ago was that?
M. C. : 1962,1 think it was.
42
index
L. L. : Then did she live with you, uh, for a while?
M. C. : Beg your pardon.
L. L. : Did she live with you, or did she...
M. C. : Uh, Oh, ye, yes, she came home and lived with me for a long time. And the she was, she's
been out at Sunrise House, and now she's been out here 12 years.
L. L. : How often do you see her?
M. C. : Well, I used to see her sometimes twice a week, sometimes once a week, but uh Don's
[Margaret's son] been out of town now for 3 weeks, so I haven't, uh, seen her. But she
calls me of the phone, and uh, I know she's okay.
L. L.: So,you have a good relationship with her?
children 135 M. C. : Oh, very good. And her brother does. Last time she was here, she said, "Don, I love
you!" Ha, ha, ha.
L. L. : Does that make you feel good?
M. C. : Oh, she says, she, she says that to him all the time. He's good to her. But he's been on the
board out there ever since she's been out there. He gives a hi of time to handicapped, to
the handicapped, and to, uh, the YMCA, and to other organizations like that. He's on the
board out at, at Horizon House, the retirement home. He's on a lot of boards: an
insurance board, uh, uh, he, he just retired 1, last fall from being uh, on the board at
University Federal for 35 years. So.
L. L. : Urn, what about, let's go back to when you were married. Did you...
M. C. : Uh, I beg your pardon.
marriage 147 L. L. : Let's go back to when you were married. What was, what was your, urn, husband's
proposal like.
M. C. :. : Oh goodness, I can't remember, so long ago I can't remember.
L. L. : Do you remember telling your parents that you were getting married?
M. C. : Oh, I told them before hand, but we were engaged 2 years anyway before hand. So I knew
him real well.
L. L. : What was your wedding like?
M. C. : Don has pictures of it; we had a, a wedding at the, uh, White River Presbyterian Church
where I belonged, in, in Auburn. We had, I think we had 4, 3 attendants. It was nice, very
nice.
[see slide 8 for Margaret's wedding picture. Margaret is the bride in the center, Helen is in
the first person on the left]
L. L. : We're your parents there?
M. C. : Beg your pardon.
L. L. : Was, were your parents there?
43
index #
M. C. : Oh sure! I should say so, my father gave me away. Well.
L. L. : Would you like to take a break?
M. C. : I beg your pardon.
L. L. : Would you like to take a break?
Ida Culver Hse 170 M. C. : No, I'd rather get it over with. [Margaret and Libby laugh.] I'm really not tired. I've just
done a great deal today, and I have more to do tomorrow. The house [Ida Culver House]
went out to Sears and Roebucks, not, uh, south, but north, and, and, uh there is a little mail
out there, and they were going to there to, uh, get fabrics 'cause quite a few women do, uh,
uh, hand work. And there's one lady that makes jackets for herself. And she should be
modeling them because she's a perfect model for somebody that's 90 years old. She has
beautiful hair, and she wears, wears her clothes well.
Grt Depression. 172 L. L. : What about, um, the Great Depression? How did that affect you?
M. C. : Now, what was that?
L. L. : The Great Depression.
M. C. : Oh, t, Depression to me was a challenge. I've always liked a challenge. That's why it
didn't take much to urge me to get, uh, in at a time when I think there is a challenge to
something. The Depression was very, very difficult. You heard tonight that your bank, the
Bank of California was going broke, closed it's doors the next morning before you could
even get there. And we had a small savings account there. And, uh, that meant you had no
savings what so ever. Then my husband was left out with all the rest of them, and your
friends were all about the same equal. Maybe, maybe 1 or 2 retained some kind of income
from work when 20 would be laid off. And that was really tragic. And, now we managed
to get along because we had started a savings account; it'd be something like an, annuity,
and we could, from the Fidelity Savings and Loan in Portland, you paid so much a month
for this annuity, and then we could borrow against it. And that's what we borrowed
against, but you made a dollar or 50 cents due for a long time and a great deal. I even dug
up a portion of, uh, our back lawn and planted vegetables; I remember carrots, things like
that, and lettuce and things. But, I was glad I didn't have to do that very long...
L. L. : Was your husband laid off?...
work 204 M. C. : I didn't, I never raised tomatoes. That was queer. But, uh, uh, there were m, many ways
in which you could cut out things. We gave up our car, and, uh,I walked to church in the
neighborhood, not the church I belonged to but another one, and I started teaching Sunday
school there, and, uh, I took my son there when has little. And, uh, it was, it was a very
interesting experience. You had the only, uh, really, only recreation that you had you made
for yourself or with your friends. You could have a picnic at home, asking, you friends, to
bring a pot, potdish or something. And, uh, it was, it was challenging. You made, you
didn't go places because you didn't have the money to spend. It, was, it was, it was worth
it though because you learned a great deal from it, and nowadays, even if you have the
money, or, it's difficult sometimes to want to spend it.
Ida Culver Hse 215 Now, I was on the committee that helped to arrange for the, uh, well, I wasn't on, on
the, uh, foundation committee, but, f, for the new Ida Culver House over there that was to
be the teacher's, uh, retirement home. And, uh, uh, they said you could get a unit for, oh,
15 hundred dollars, or so, a month. Well, it turned out in the end that we sent all kinds of
questionnaires to teachers, and they, about what they thought they would need or like to
have in a retirement home. 'Course they wanted everything, naturally, so they put
everything down. Well, that shifted the price from 15 hundred for me for almost 3
thousand a month because I had to change over my medical plan to another medical plan
that suited them for entrance into the infirmary. And, uh, so,I, uh,chose not to
44
index #
immediately as soon as..., and asked for my money back; I had a thousand dollars down on
that, and I asked for my money back; and they wrote me later and said they had a couple
of, uh, 2 or 3 apartments that they were subsidizing for teachers. I, I would never be the
kind to over-go my limits, and I wrote back and told them that I thanked them very much,
but I had the money, but I did not wish to spend it on myself, all, all of it on myself, which I
think is a foolish thing to do. So, and so I've been very happy to have stayed here instead
of going there. I don't have to worry about where the next [unreadable word] is coming
from.
Grt Depression 244 L. L. : Wh, when you said that you don't necessarily like to spend all your money on yourself, do
you remember back to the Depression when people had less you, do you remember having
to help them out?
M. C. : Yes, I do. Uh, many times. And they way I was helped out was that my folks still lived
out in the country. They had wood, my brother brought we converted our furnace into a
wood furnace, so we burned wood, and my brother brought it in, and they had, uh,uh,
things on the farm apples and fruit and things of that nature,, and they brought it into us, so
that helped us a great deal, a great deal.
L. L. : What about you helping your neighbors or your friends?
M. C. : Well, uh, my immediate neighbors were not my, well they were friendly, but not my friends.
My friends were at a, at a distance, and we exchanged a lot of things, you know, even,
even uh, oh if you had clothing or if you had, uh, uh an excess of any kind of food. Now,
like my mother would send in a box of apples; well, I had plenty of apples, and I passed the
out to my friends, or she'd send in a box of potatoes, and I would send them out to my
friends. There were all kinds of things.
work 268 And then the first, I was the first one really to get work, and I went down and applied
to the Park Department for Recreational Director. And, uh, they didn't know I could do
they job, but I did,ha, ha, ha. Uli, sometimes, you know poverty sends you to, uh, a
direction that you never thought you'd have to go. And, uh, uh so they, uh, they first
asked to pass an examination. So, I went for a 2 day, uh, well it wasn't training because I
was showing them what I was able to do, and they were evidently impressed because they
gave me the job. And I can't remember, I thought, I know I get 4 dollars a day for the
work I did, and maybe it was 3 days a week. And that, that taught me another lesson.
There was a woman that came to assist me because, you see, there was a great deal of
free time for the women in the neighborhood and they had to do something if they couldn't
find a job. And, there, there was 1 woman in the neighborhood, who, uh, whose husband
had been very wealthy, and they had lived in a very large home. And, uh, one day she saw
a woman from her community coming down 3 or 4 step into the playground, and she said,
"Oh gear, I'm gonna to hide." And she went to hide, and later I found out that she didn't
want anyone to know that she had to work.
L. L. : She was embarrassed.
M. C. : And, she was terrible embarrassed. She had to hide from that woman. Well, you see I, I
wouldn't 'have been the kind person that would, uh, have run and hide, hid. But I felt
sorry for her.
L. L. : How...
M. C. : excuse me
L. L. : ...did you have your children then, when you started the work at the Parks Department?
children 301
M. C. : Don was born in '28 and, uh, and uh, the, uh Depression came in '32, so he was about 4
years old. And, the, the, uh some funny things happen along the way. I'll never forget, we
had a cousin in Alaska, and he had, he wasn't my cousin, he was my mother's cousin. And,
45
index #
and he came down here to, and spent 3 or 4 days with us, and, uh, uh I know he offered
Don a silver dollar, and Don says, "We don't need it, you keep it." And he had just sold a
gold mine at that time for 75 thousand dollars; and of course 75 thousand then was like 500
thousand now [laugh]. I, I talked to Don about that afterward, and I said "Oh, he offered
you a dollar honey, you should have taken it." He said, "We don't need it." See, he was
not impressed at 4. So, and that was all right. Well, but I, I, my cousin Dave never knew
how close he came to giving us a fortune. Oh, he brought us things, you know, at the time,
but that dollar would have gone a long ways. Coffee was 25 cents a pound, and bread was
10 cents a loaf, hamburger was 15 cents a pound, I told you that before.
work 326 L. L. : Um, what was your husband doing at that time?
M. C. : Looking for something to do.
L. L. : How, how, long was...
M. C. : He was an engineer, and he had been working with the, uh, uh Water and Sewer
Department here in the city, drafting. He was a drafting engineer. But then when he first
got his, first, uh, job, he uh, I think it was in the ship yards because he had worked in the
ship yards, he was an overseas veteran. Uh, and he had worked in the shipyards in
Bremerton before he went to the University [of Washington], So, he had kind of an "in"
there, at least they knew who he was. And, he got a job for 65 dollars a month, and he had
to pay, uh, something like 30 some dollars for transportation. Because he had street car
fare to, par, pay downtown, and then boat fare to pay to Bremerton, and a round trip every
day, Well, anything else?
L. L. : Wa, so he wa, was he was emp, was he employed when you started working at the Parks
Department?
M. C. : Well, he had a sort term at Boeings. I can't remember what he did there, But then he got,
uh, on to the, back on the Water Department, reinstated.
L. L. : Did it bother him that you worked even though you had a small child at home?
children 354 M. C. : Well, uh, my small child at home, you see, working at the field house I had either early or
late, and, uh, uh by that time, my mother was a widow and she came and took care of him
so I could work, only part of the time.
L. L. : That didn't cause a problem in your marriage though?
M. C. : Beg your pardon though.
L. L. : That didn't cause a problem in your marriage?
M. C. : No, no, because we were just luck that somebody could do something. And that wasn't
very long anyway. Well, anyway.
death/father 364 L. L. : What about, um, how old were you when your father died?
M. C. : How old was I?
L. L. : um-huh
M. C. : Oh, goodness, let's see I have to figure that one out. Uh, he died in '28, no wait a minute,
uh, he died in '26, the fall of'26. So, I was 2...
L. L. : 23 or so?
46
index #
M. C. : Oh, about 24.
L. L. : And, could you, um, tell me about that, like how it happened, and how you heard about it.
M. C. : Well, we was driving a, a tmck, and he went to, uh, Ravensdale, he was in Ravensdale.
And for some reason, now I don't know whether, how, whether the, the, he collided with
the, no he didn't collide with the train, the train hit him. Evidently, his truck stalled on the
tracks. And he was hit by the train. And he died in the Auburn hospital. And, that, that
left my mother and brother alone, my brother was just out of high school. So,...
[see photo copy 4 for a copy of the poem found in Thoma's Spaight's pocket when he
died]
L. L. ; How did you deal with that
M. C. : Well, like I deal with every other tragedy, I guess. Uh, my whole support flew to, uh, went
to my mother, of course. So, I, I can take tragedy quite well. You get cu, uh, uh, rather
cushioned to it, and it's a part of life. So, that, that's it.
L. L. : How 'bout your mother, uh, was she able to handle it well with you, with all of you
around?
religion 398 M. C. : My mother, I think, could handle anything through her faith. She had strong faith, things
will always get better. We help each other. God will take care of it, you know. And
that's, uh, that's the only attitude you can really have because then you put all your into it
to make it work.
L. L. : D, uh, did that financially harm your mother when your father passed away?
M. C. : Uh, how did she finance herself?
L. L.: yeah
M. C. : Well, I suppose with what they had, and he had a little insurance money. And, uh, of
course then came the Depression on the heels of all that which nobody had anything, so.
She managed.
L. L. : Did she run the farm by herself?
M. C. : Oh, it wasn't the case of running a farm because it really, it really wasn't a, a commercial
farm because my father was in business. See, he was making a recreational, uh, uh, what
would you call, a recreational park out of it. And, and she told quite a bit of the equipment
he had. And my brother had no interest in being a farmer. And, then he, he went into his
own employment you see, and so he was helping my mother too. And he's still on the
place, 90 years later.
L. L.: Is that by your son's summer home?
M. C. : No, well it's several miles apart.
L. L, : We're both of those pieces...
M. C. : Its down in the valley, and his summer home is on Lake Sawyer.
L. L. : Which piece of property was in your family?
M. C. : Beg your pardon.
L. L. : Which piece of property has been in your family for so long?
47
index
property 441 M. C. : Two, both of them, both of them have been there for, oh dear me, how long, over a
hundred years. I don't know very many are. Now this is a picture, this is a picture of the
lake out there all the way around. I think that almost all of those are of the lake.
L. L. : This is Don's summer lake, or summer house on the lake?
M. C. : Oh yes, it's right on the lake. You can just look through the windows and see that,
and see those, if you want to just brush through there, if you have time enough to do it,just
look through and you can see... Here's Don and Marilyn [Don's wife], here. These are all
these last years pictures, and I don't intend to put them in. But, but here you can see the,
what the lake itself is like. I'm looking at. Well, you can see it here. Uh, this is right in
front of their house. There, this is a, at their house also. They have a lot of memorabilia,
see, "Seattle," "Seattle." [Margaret is pointing to pictures of wooden letters that spell out
"Seattle" which are placed in the yard of her son's summer home.] And here, th, these
pictures are, that's all of their house.
L. L. : And how long was this property in your family?
M. C. : Pres, since territorial days, you figure that out. I don't know how long it's been. He can
tell you all that, he's got it all down.
[see photocopies 1-3 for a copy of the original deed (1892) and a copy of the original plot
of land]
L. L. : And from what side of the family was this, was the land...?
M. C. ; The Gibbons
L. L. : The Gibbons
M. C. : My mother's family, my mother's. See, you can even see, in the house, you can see,
uh, uh, [the lake]...
end Tape 4. side A
Tape 4
side B
M. C. : Isn't there a picture there of an inside of a house and you see through the windows,
you see the lake [pointing to a picture]?
L. L. : It's right here I think.
M. C. : Yes, those are they, all of them. Now that was, I told you that the deed has, was signed by
President Harrison, so it's been in the family for years.
L. L. : Does Don have a copy of the deed?
M. C. : I don't know if he has or not. If he doesn't, he ought to have, 'cause he's a great stickier
for going back and getting, you know, all the...
L. L. : That would be nice to get, uh, a copy of that also.
M. C. : Yes, that would be interesting. I haven't seen it for many, many years.
husband 012 L. L. : Uh, what about your early relationship with your husband? How was, how were, um...?
M. C. : It was always a very good relationship.
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